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Unrepentant art thief, current dA administrator

Journal Entry: Fri Feb 9, 2007, 7:14 PM
There are certain attitudes and behaviours which I consider totally unacceptable for an administrator on this or any other such site. I believe the time has come to bring one story to light, although I will remove the administrator's name.

A little over a week ago, I noticed that an administrator (an administrator whom I liked, in fact) was using Calvin & Hobbes clip art in her journal. Being a fan of the strip, I was (and am) well aware of the cartoonist's consistent refusal to allow his characters to appear out of context - as he has stated many times, he feels it cheapens his work. In a book I have, he specifically points out a particular strip as being a favourite with pirates. It is from this strip that the administrator in question stole her journal decoration (a single panel without the context provided by the rest of the strip - trust me, the strip is meaningless without that context).

I thought it over and checked my facts, and then wrote a note. After considerable rewriting to make that note nicer, I sent the following:

Hate to say it [name], but I'm pretty sure the Calvin & Hobbes images in your journal are copyright violations. Bill Watterson has consistently refused to allow his characters to appear out of context - this is why he has always refused to allow merchandising and animation, for instance. He feels it cheapens his characters. He explains his views in this speech, and I think you might also be interested in the rest of the speech. If you don't want to read the whole thing, there are internal links up the top (which I didn't notice until I had read the whole speech).

Peace,
Patty


Later the same day (my time), I received the following reply:

Ah yes, I was wonderin when someone would poke me with that infamous speech. I knew it would eventually show up in my messages. ;) He makes me laugh. With all due respect to dear Mr Watterson he almost comes off angry that he, as an underground artist, has made such a HUGE impact on the mainstream world.

Truth be told, i'm actually working on a new CSS for my journal so I probably won't have the images up for much longer. Thanks for the heads up, Patty! I truly honestly mean that. :hug:


She's being nice (in keeping with the view I had of her as a geniunely sweet person), but that note was basically just a brush-off. Being somewhat floored by her apparent disregard for copyright laws (international law and dA policy), I waited roughly a day before replying. The next note I sent was even more heavily edited than the first - two close friends (Dawn and Bec) proof-read it for me, and I removed entire paragraphs which they felt were 'harsh'. I sent the following:

Until today I'd never heard of the speech - learn something new every day, huh? ;)

Doesn't it bother you though, publicly breaking international law and dA policy while wearing the admin hat?

I notice that your CSS has changed, but the copyright violations are still there on previous journals - might want to remove them ;)


Believe me, that is a shadow of its former self. The next day, I received the following reply:

CSS is handled the same exact way image use in our avatars is. Were Universal Press Syndicate (the company who owns the copyright to Calvin and Hobbes) to make a complaint about the images in my journal to the dA administration I would have to remove it, yes. There is not, however, a blanket policy in regards to images being used in CSS. I am not in violation of dA policy.

According to the information provided from Universal Press Syndicate images may be used for non-commercial purposes. I am not making a profit nor claiming copyright.

Like I said before, I'm going to remove the images regardless. But, in the future please don't question my integrity by saying things like "Doesn't it bother you though, publicly breaking international law and dA policy while wearing the admin hat?". I am in violation of neither.

You're more than welcome to contact $realitysquared about my journal through the helpdesk. If there is indeed a problem I will remove the CSS faster than I am already. I have nothing more to say about this. Thanks.


This really floored me. I did some fairly thorough fact checking (many thanks to Dawn for helping with that), and wrote a note. Again, the same two close friends proofread it. I sent the following (still-restrained) note:

I'm surprised and disappointed that a former CEA staffer apparently misunderstands copyright so thoroughly, not to mention your complete disregard for Watterson's stated wishes and your ignorance of who owns what rights.

I am not in violation of dA policy
You are in violation of international copyright law. According to FAQ #250: The laws of my country differ from those of the United States- which ones apply?, dA policy incorporates the whole of US law (which in turn incorporates the international copyright law I'm talking about). If you break the Berne convention, you're breaking dA policy.

Were Universal Press Syndicate (the company who owns the copyright to Calvin and Hobbes) to make a complaint about the images in my journal to the dA administration I would have to remove it
1. UPS does not own the copyright to Calvin and Hobbes. Bill Watterson does.
The exploitation rights to the strip were returned to me, and I will not license 'Calvin and Hobbes'. - Bill Watterson, [link]
2. You are (were) using Watterson's work in a way he (the copyright holder) has consistently and specifically forbidden. Why exactly is it then up to him or his syndicate to notice and complain about your breaking of the law?

According to the information provided from Universal Press Syndicate images may be used for non-commercial purposes
I call bullshit. Calvin and Hobbes cartoons cannot be used on web pages, on-line, email, internet or intranet - NO EXCEPTIONS. - UPS, [link]

I am not making a profit nor claiming copyright
[link] - I suggest you read #2, and possibly #9 while you're at it.
I've seen both of your arguments more times than I care to count - they are both standard arguments used by art thieves. This is the first time I've seen them from anyone in a position of authority, though, let alone a former CEA staffer.

Like I said before, I'm going to remove the images regardless.
In the time between when I sent my first note and when I received your first reply, you removed the images from your current journal but not from previous entries. I assumed this was what you were talking about, so I reminded you about the old entries. I see that since I sent my previous note you have removed the images from old entries as well. I choose not to regard this as purely coincidental.

please don't question my integrity by saying things like "Doesn't it bother you though, publicly breaking international law and dA policy while wearing the admin hat?". I am in violation of neither.
As I have shown, you were in violation of both. Quite frankly, this does raise some serious questions about your integrity.

You're more than welcome to contact $realitysquared about my journal through the helpdesk. If there is indeed a problem I will remove the CSS faster than I am already.
As I write this, you have already removed the images. Therefore there is nothing to report, and no problem except that you appear to lack understanding of, and respect for, copyright and the laws governing it.


This note was sent on February 5. I have received no reply. Instead, this administrator chose to post a journal entry calling me some fairly nasty things and then to block me. I am not allowed to provide a link to that journal entry, but I will quote and respond to a few points in the journal. I might wonder whether the journal was aimed at me, but the fact that she blocked me makes it pretty clear. This is also the reason why I am posting a journal entry instead of trying to talk to her privately (as I did in the first place).

I make mistakes, we all do
Mistakes are understandable. What I despise is the way in which you responded when I made you aware of your mistake.

the invitation to the drama-fest
That is downright insulting. If I were looking for drama, I would *not* have begun by sending you a private note politely informing you of the problem. If I were looking for drama, I would have done one or more of the following things:
1. Reported you to dA through the Helpdesk.
2. Reported you directly to United Press Syndicate, which handles everyday copyright matters for the somewhat-reclusive Watterson
3. Gone public. Had I posted this when you still had the images in her journal, it would have been rather easy for people to figure out who I'm talking about. As it is I'm posting this journal entry as a public service announcement, having exhausted all other avenues.

I will not respond to jabs to my character with hate OR with my tail between my legs.
I raised legitimate and meticulously-supported concerns. I would have liked you to respond with some sort of honesty and integrity.

something I hope makes some sense to someone I consider a friend
I liked you. I didn't consider you a friend, but only because we hadn't had enough to do with each other. At this point, however, I no longer want to be your friend. I am amazed that you thought the journal you posted would improve my opinion of you.

Madam, you have completely lost my respect. I am repelled by the way you conducted yourself in this matter, including the way in which you continue to view the matter. I consider your behaviour completely unacceptable for an administrator, and I (along with a friend or two of mine who used to like you) have seriously reconsidered who and what you are.

Note to anyone who reads this:
If you don't know who this is about, please don't ask me here. I will not tell anyone on dA or any other site, although I will discuss it via IM with anyone I currently have on my IM contact lists.
EDIT: I will make an exception for any dA admin.

Devious Comments (Add yours)

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*3sunflower 8 hours 4 minutes ago   Hide
Never straightforward... I am afraid that we will never hear/read: Yes, people, you have right. Instead we will always have (quoting): Admins are *gasp* also human beings as well and can make mistakes...

I'm truly shocked by the particular line (quoting): I don't see a customer. I see someone sitting here for free...
No sub = no respect?! Something to think about...

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!CageyButterfly 4 hours 22 minutes ago   Hide
You're not the only one "truly shoced":(

It *is* shocking coming from someone whos salary *we* pay.


:heart:

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$lolly 6 hours 19 minutes ago   Hide
Then you misconstrue my point.

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!CageyButterfly 4 hours 23 minutes ago   Hide
I'm afraid *all* reasonable customers of yours have "misconstrued" your point, Richard.

Did you have one~ other than the wholly defensive measure of accustory finger-wagging in the face of being caught out ?

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$lolly 4 hours 7 minutes ago   Hide
Well, it is unfortunate there are no reasonable people interacting on this subject to ask to verify that. Let me know when one comes along without an agenda of painting myself and the staff here as some sort of Snidely Whiplash cartoon villains.

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!CageyButterfly 3 hours 59 minutes ago   Hide
:)

You know a sure sign of insanity is operating onb the presumption ~ everyone else is unreasonable;)

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$lolly 3 hours 40 minutes ago   Hide
Yeah because the list of names here responding to this isn't the same list of names that has been causing trouble for the sake of causing trouble for about a year and a half. You guys are boring and predictable at this point.

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!CageyButterfly 3 hours 27 minutes ago   Hide
My God in heaven.

I will say this one last thing in order to allow you & your staff to retain some credibility and save sone face ~ it is *entirely* illogical to blame the commnuity everytime your public actions EVIDENCE some impropiety or wrongdoing...

LOOK AT YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR & POLICIES!

Its the only thing youre responsible for.

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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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~Maikaduriel 8 hours 49 minutes ago   Hide
umm... I think I commented but I can't see it... so HERE IT GOES AGAIN... Just like the treadmills...

Holy God your blogs get some controversy?! You should be a lawyer.
I don't actually have anything to say, I just wanted to lighten the mood a bit, so here I go.

I FEEL PREPARED FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE! I have a groovy folder with pretty much everything I could possibly need and soon it will be even groovier when I get my hands on those magazines I left at home and GLORY GLORY for my humble mug of coke slowly melting the ice to my left. At least its not a tall yummy milkshake waiting for me to knock it over, like last night.
xoxox

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~Maikaduriel 8 hours 50 minutes ago   Hide
Holy God your blogs get some controversy?! You should be a lawyer.
I don't actually have anything to say, I just wanted to lighten the mood a bit, so here I go.

I FEEL PREPARED FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE! I have a groovy folder with pretty much everything I could possibly need and soon it will be even groovier when I get my hands on those magazines I left at home and GLORY GLORY for my humble mug of coke slowly melting the ice to my left. At least its not a tall yummy milkshake waiting for me to knock it over, like last night.
xoxox

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!CageyButterfly 4 hours 22 minutes ago   Hide
*awesomeness* @ New Folder!:highfive:

:)

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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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~Maikaduriel 1 hour 12 minutes ago   Hide
Hahaha YES indeedy, I got the magazines too so now it has potential to be covered in my favourite bands very soon.
1, 2, 3, 4... HIGH FIVE!

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~Maikaduriel 8 hours 50 minutes ago   Hide
Holy God your blogs get some controversy?! You should be a lawyer.
I don't actually have anything to say, I just wanted to lighten the mood a bit, so here I go.

I FEEL PREPARED FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE! I have a groovy folder with pretty much everything I could possibly need and soon it will be even groovier when I get my hands on those magazines I left at home and GLORY GLORY for my humble mug of coke slowly melting the ice to my left. At least its not a tall yummy milkshake waiting for me to knock it over, like last night.
xoxox

--
Stay crunchy. Even in milk.
Reply
~Maikaduriel 8 hours 52 minutes ago   Hide
Holy God your blogs get some controversy?! You should be a lawyer.
I don't actually have anything to say, I just wanted to lighten the mood a bit, so here I go.

I FEEL PREPARED FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE! I have a groovy folder with pretty much everything I could possibly need and soon it will be even groovier when I get my hands on those magazines I left at home and GLORY GLORY for my humble mug of coke slowly melting the ice to my left. At least its not a tall yummy milkshake waiting for me to knock it over, like last night.
xoxox

--
Stay crunchy. Even in milk.
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~surrealist-geek 38 minutes 30 seconds ago   Hide
Ah, 150+ comments is unusual even for me :P

I don't think you actually managed to lighten the mood in here, but thanks for making me smile :)

Oh, and make the most of feeling prepared... :hug:

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$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
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=Sephylight 16 hours 9 minutes ago   Hide
:no: We've seen again and again that everyone on the dA staff is above their own rules.

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!CageyButterfly 4 hours 17 minutes ago   Hide
I just found out about !BadFurDay a couple days ago...:(

He was a truly *good* guy~ a real asset to this community:heart:

:hug:


If you talk to him, tell him he is missed, please?:)

:tribute:

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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
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!CageyButterfly 3 hours 9 minutes ago   Hide
:clap:

YAY! Good for him:)

I saw ~surrealist-geek up there too;)

Do you belong there as well, Darran?

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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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!CageyButterfly 4 hours 19 minutes ago   Hide
:nod:

It's shocking these incidents *never* lead them to examine their own behavior, interactions & policies rather than pointing the tired accusatory finger at the community, isn't it?

*I* find myself continually shocked, anyway...It seems so*far* outside the administrative role we *pay* them to uphold in a professional manner.

:heart:

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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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`duhcoolies 16 hours 29 minutes ago   Hide
dude, that is just plain crappy :hmm:
all the hard facts are presented and yet an ignorant administration.

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!CageyButterfly 4 hours 16 minutes ago   Hide
all the hard facts are presented and yet an ignorant administration.

*exactly!!!*

You are some kind of succint-genius or something:P


:clap::#1:

:blowkiss:

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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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`duhcoolies 4 hours 6 minutes ago   Hide
lol :B
with stupid power comes stupid irregularities........ hear that and keep that in mind, you might have to look it up time and time again when your around here xD

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!CageyButterfly 3 hours 54 minutes ago   Hide
:lol: Who wrote that:?..Do you know?

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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
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!CageyButterfly 3 hours 11 minutes ago   Hide
:lol:

YOU *found* IT!:lmao:

:love::laughing::glomp:


Omahgawd. You have to tell me this stuff!

:D


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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
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`duhcoolies 2 hours 45 minutes ago   Hide
I think you just found out :O

catch you on chat ;)

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*DustinGen 16 hours 39 minutes ago   Hide
Didn't you know its ok for dA admins to do whatever they want and its quite alright and if you point that out you either get flamed or attacked by other admins.

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!CageyButterfly 4 hours 15 minutes ago   Hide
:lol:

Yeh! What kind of fucking idiot *doesn't* know that.

Let demean &ridicule them~ FTW!:#1:

:laughing::):heart:


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[link]
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`onestar 16 hours 59 minutes ago   Hide
Do as I say. Not as I do.

Sigh.

The same old story, told again and again.

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!CageyButterfly 4 hours 13 minutes ago   Hide Mood: Affection
....& again & again & again...

& just when you preemptively begin to recite their tired old script back to them ~ they interrupt you & start at the beginning:ohmygod:

<*sigh*, indeed>


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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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~karpie 1 day 2 hours ago   Hide
aww, I can't see the journal entry that prompted the tirade... I even went looking for it too! Poopy! Oh well :p

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~karpie 1 day 1 hour ago   Hide
but that would be common sense! pffft.

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!CageyButterfly 1 day 2 hours ago   Hide
:giggle: @ "poopy"

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!CageyButterfly 17 hours 33 minutes ago   Hide Mood: Dumbfounded
:aww:


:idea:

Wait a tic...:hmm:

YOU DO *THAT* WITH YOUR SISTER:?!:O

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~surrealist-geek 13 hours 50 minutes ago   Hide
I do *WHAT*? :O

I think you're operating under some misunderstandings, ma'am - Becky and I have never been romantically involved.

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$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
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!CageyButterfly 11 hours 33 minutes ago   Hide
I had no idea ~ until you just told me:#1:


:flirty::D


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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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~surrealist-geek 10 hours 23 minutes ago   Hide
Oh, dear... =p

We've been best friends for years, but never romantically linked. Running joke for the entire time has been that everyone assumes we're an item :P

And yes, I am single :flirty:

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$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
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!CageyButterfly 9 hours 55 minutes ago   Hide
:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:

..That's all I ever need to know:flirty:

:giggle:


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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
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~newepoch 1 day 8 hours ago   Hide
Very impressive piece of work! I hope you will try and send it to Bill Watterson.

I know how hard it is to maintain the rage and the energy on an issue like this. But this rape of other people's artwork MUST STOP. I do not believe it is impossible. Its just hard.

Well done :)

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~surrealist-geek 1 day 7 hours ago   Hide
Is it worth reporting after the fact, do you think? She has removed the images, so no violation is currently being committed.

I'm not actually trying to maintain any rage here - if I were operating on rage, I would have reported her straight to UPS and publicly named and shamed her. I'm just staying calm, and trying to do what's right.

Thank you, though :)

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
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~newepoch 23 hours 44 minutes ago   Hide
I agree with you... rage is not compatible with clear thinking. On the other hand passion for the cause is essential. Its a hard thing to balance.

The fact that she removed the images is irrelevant. The event occurred. The most disturbing aspect is her continued lack of respect for the implications of her actions, and of your concerns. She is unrepentant. It is a fundamental principal of western criminal law to weigh the attitude of the defendant when assessing their culpability.

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~surrealist-geek 20 hours 50 minutes ago   Hide
I have a passion for justice - that tends to be enough :)

UPS's response would have just been a take-down order, which seems somewhat redundant now. I can prove that she was using the images, but what's the point? I mean, what is it going to achieve? I'm not actually out to cause trouble for the admin in question, believe it or not :P

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$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
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~newepoch 1 hour 42 minutes ago   Hide
I so know the feeling. Its a hard one to call.

Personally, if I was the copyright holder, I would like to have the choice to ignore the situation.

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!CageyButterfly 1 day 14 hours ago   Hide Mood: Cheerful
:#1:

O! PS!


I AM *PROUD* of *YOU* for doing the *RIGHT THING* regardless of CONSEQUENCE ( yet again)!!!:clap::love::CLAP:

You, Sir ~ have one *HELL* of an outstanding character, a healthy set of balls on you, and an astonishingly admirable & unwavering ( back) bone!!!:D

:flirty::heart:

:blowkiss:

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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
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[link]
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$lolly 1 day 2 hours ago   Hide
Thanks for taking pride in him doing the "right thing" regardless of how misinformed he may be! :#1:

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~rwirtz 16 hours 50 minutes ago   Hide
Oooh, out of line!
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~mirrin 18 hours 50 minutes ago   Hide
I very seriously think some explanation is in order. You seem to be implying that ripping and altering art is ok as long as you don't try to put your name on it. As so many past and successful legal actions have demonstrated (for these very same pieces, I should add) that is absurd. So what is it you mean here?

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$lolly 15 hours 44 minutes ago   Hide
What I mean is the writer of this journal likes to go off on tirades and crusades full of accusations and tries to dress them up as fact. The matter at hand could have been easily resolved ( and has since been ) but instead Captain Public goes this route.

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~surrealist-geek 11 hours 3 minutes ago   Hide
1. What non-factual or untrue accusations have I tried to dress up as fact?
2. What exactly do you think I should have done about this issue?
3. Thank you for the nickname, Mr Hartley. Again, I appreciate your professionalism. I remind you that my first, second and third actions were private notes to the administrator in question. Only in response both to her dismissive and then angry notes and her insulting journal entry did I eventually post this journal entry.

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$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
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~mirrin 15 hours 3 minutes ago   Hide
For reasons every easy to understand if one bothers to try.

The issues s-g has raised are no laughing matter and are invariably backed up, not with his statements, but by the statements of those who have who are responsible for having caused the issues in the first place.

S-g has shown considerable reservation and respect in situations in which the average person would have taken a very different route. I'm very impressed that he allowed the ripper to take the images down before raising the issue of their very concerning response. You owe dA not getting a take-down order for that, as if it had been brought to the attention before the ripper had a chance to deal with it dA most certainly would have been brought to the attention of UFS. That he had the reservation to do this, and also not post screenshots of the culprit's journals (with their name plastered all over it), is of a caliber of conduct not to be expected from someone in what you seem to be claiming is his position.

Captain Public? "He" would have been sufficient. Handing out nicknames is, at the very least, very unprofessional regardless of the situation.

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!CageyButterfly 11 hours 35 minutes ago   Hide
~mirrin ~ I would just like to point out Richard is doing what he always does~ he *never* answers a direct question regarding the *OPEN* impropiety ( possibly criminal) of staff ~ & is triangulating the issue by attacking customers instead.

He's off issue.

Though I understand the want to defend someone as clearly above reproach in this situation as Mr. Heddles; Patty did nothing wrong.

It's dA staff once again ~ who's *public* actions are in question.


To simply run around pointing fingers at the *way* Patty upheld his civic duty ( which as we who know him all know ~ *never* goes against policy) by calling a spade a spade is disingenuous as best, and maliciously asinine at worst.

:heart::hug:


~

:clap: Bravo~ though;)

:)

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
~mirrin 9 hours 47 minutes ago   Hide
We all love s-g and his efforts to bring some element of ethics into the running of dA. I found it my position to point out exactly what he might have done had he been a less than honorable person. I hope it came out the are as a clear statement of s-g's honorability in such matters. (slight language error in the middle aside). That it got no response is quite encouraging, actually... that alone tells tales when compared to what was responded to.

And... the battle rages on... another day on dA. To laugh or cry... tis a question that no one can answer.

Well, as Yoda said, there is do or do not. Time to get back to doing. :jedi:

:-)

--
Tiger? WHERE!?! WHERE!?! :sprint:
Reply
!CageyButterfly 6 hours 51 minutes ago   Hide
That it got no response is quite encouraging, actually... that alone tells tales when compared to what was responded to.


:) Agreed. Those are always ( however unfortunately) the most successful.

..& *yes* ~ you communicated your ideas regarding S-G very successfully...I merely didn't want Richard to dilute the matter at hand:heart:

~

"Well, as Yoda said, there is do or do not. Time to get back to doing. :jedi:"

:-)


:lmao:! ~mirrin I'm a pretty traditional chick. I don't know my Star Wars quotes the way you don't know a pair Of Blahniks from louboutin's.... ( [link] ) ;)

Louboutin's are the ones with the red soles :horny:


:faint:

East is east... As the Kipling phrase goes;)

blowkiss:

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
~mirrin 5 hours 53 minutes ago   Hide
I can now claim two unanswered comments on this journal. I must be doing something right. :lol:


East is east ... :nod:

:D

--
Tiger? WHERE!?! WHERE!?! :sprint:
Reply
!CageyButterfly 15 hours 17 minutes ago   Hide
Oh. More character asassainations for your customer base ~ *instead of admitting *failure* & taking *responsibility*


What *is* te administrative equivalent of tinfoilhattery?

Baseless accusations, and triangulated, externalized finger-pointing; I think so.


--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
$lolly 13 hours 56 minutes ago   Hide
I don't see a customer. I see someone sitting here for free using his journal as a platform to attack the integrity of the site. Which he has done for months now. If I were truly the person you are trying to paint me as I would have banned him ages ago. But hey, I haven't. Not even after seeing private correspondence between he and I plastered all over the place and so on.

--
Richard Hartley
Director of Community Development
lolly@deviantart.com
Reply
~surrealist-geek 10 hours 7 minutes ago   Hide
I don't see a customer .... sitting here for free
1. You haven't been watching long enough. You might want to check the records, and find out how much money I have directly given to deviantART since I joined in 2003.
2. A major income stream for deviantART is onsite advertising. How many pages have been loaded so that someone could read my words?

to attack the integrity of the site
Not exactly, Mr Hartley. I have, with specific examples and evidence, attacked the integrity of a number of site administrators (yourself included).

Which he has done for months now.
Roughly 18 months, in fact.

If I were truly the person you are trying to paint me as I would have banned him ages ago. But hey, I haven't
Haven't we discussed this already? Given that the link is still in my signature, I had thought you would remember.

Not even after seeing private correspondence between he and I plastered all over the place and so on.
Could you refresh my memory on this? I've just reread my entire journal (including the deleted entries), and I cannot find a single instance of private correspondence to or from you. Publicly accessible comment exchanges on deviantART do not constitute "private correspondence".

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
Reply
!CageyButterfly 11 hours 27 minutes ago   Hide
dA makes money off volume.

An unpaid acct is ad space.

You know this.

This ADMINISTRATION attacks its own integrity with its own actions.

Don't like it?
Better do something different.

Patty is smarter than I am. He errs so far on the side of reason and caution you couldn't ban him...Not even in the triangulated politcal fashion I was many times over....:hmm:

But nevermind that; what about the very public actions taken by a member of *your* staff which are in question on tis journal?


--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
~surrealist-geek 19 hours 16 minutes ago   Hide
That is dishonorable, Richard. If you believe me to be 'misinformed' in this matter, the correct (honorable) recourse is to contact me privately and inform me of this (much as I originally did for the administrator in question here). I believe that the alternative action you have chosen speaks for itself, and in any case I have no intention of breaking dA policy by making a personal attack against you.

I have presented here a note exchange. It is unaltered, except that I removed the administrator's name.

In my notes in the exchange displayed above, I present solid evidence in support of each and every fact I state. We researched this thoroughly, building on my considerable prior knowledge of this particular cartoonist's views and rights (as well as international copyright law and dA policy). I checked my facts, my sources and my wording with several friends before sending each note.

I note you only say that I "may be" 'misinformed'. In view of this ambiguity, I pose the following straight questions:

1. Am I mistaken in anything I have said in this journal?
2. If so, exactly what have I said that is incorrect and exactly how does it differ from the truth?

Please provide solid evidence supporting any points you make. If you would like to discuss the matter with a representative of Universal Press Syndicate, I would be more than happy to arrange a meeting. This is not a joke.

If you cannot show me to be 'mistaken' in any of what I have said here, I ask that you issue a public apology for this unfounded personal attack. For anyone reading this who questions my use of the term "personal attack", I recommend the links in my signature as helpful background reading.

I would also like to point out, both for your benefit and for the benefit of all who later read this exchange, that this journal entry contains every piece of information necessary in order to understand the issue at stake here. By the time *CageyButterfly wrote the comment to which you replied, she was in possession of the facts. I note, furthermore, that all of these facts are presented in such a way that any reader can easily verify them.

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
Reply
$lolly 15 hours 46 minutes ago   Hide
You can think what you want, and obviously you do. But arguing a pint with you is useless as you never bend or even try to see a different view once you have set sail on your crusade. The fact you are still sporting the sig you have is proof of that alone. Anyhow, carry on with your pointless vendetta, the matter was taken care of several days ago anyhow.

--
Richard Hartley
Director of Community Development
lolly@deviantart.com
Reply
~surrealist-geek 11 hours 29 minutes ago   Hide
You can think what you want
As can anyone. The difference is that I provide evidence to support my views.

arguing a pint with you is useless as you never bend or even try to see a different view
Even if we accept this view, you have two as-yet-unexplored options available to you:
1. Prove me wrong. When proven wrong, I admit defeat (this has happened here before, albeit not often).
2. Try to explain your point(s) of view to me. Seriously, I would appreciate that. That would have been a far more helpful opening than the personal attack you chose.

once you have set sail on your crusade.
My 'crusade' is that facts be known to all who should know them. That is all. You could save a lot of 'drama' by actually addressing the points I make, rather than attacking me personally.

The fact you are still sporting the sig you have is proof of that alone
Thank you, Mr Hartley. There are certain things I would be unwise to say here, and I appreciate your thoughtfulness in rendering them superfluous.

carry on with your pointless vendetta
This needs no reply. I copy it here only for completeness.

the matter was taken care of several days ago anyhow
Why exactly was this not the content of your first comment on this journal entry? Serious question. Incidentally, I still have the option of reporting this incident to UPS. For that matter, it's entirely likely that Watterson himself might want all Calvin & Hobbes fanart on dA to be taken down.

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
Reply
~surrealist-geek 13 hours 37 minutes ago   Hide
I think you just posted an honest comment (to which I am now replying). Since I'd like to encourage this, I'll reply both ways. Let's start with seeing your and her points of view:

I'm afraid I can't understand what she was thinking, to think her use of those images was acceptable in the first place. Strike one for me. Still, that's a mistake and I've already said (although possibly not in public) that I could easily have forgiven that mistake. The sticking point is her determined insistence that she wasn't doing anything wrong, despite proof to the contrary.

So anyway, my first note arrives in her inbox. She thanks me, blows it off but removes the images from her current journal. She's still woefully ill-informed about copyright law (and even dA policy), and thinks I'm worrying about nothing.

I get her reply, think WTF? Think it over, talk it over with some friends, check my facts very thoroughly. Eventually send my second note.

She gets my second note, is offended by my line about publicly breaking international law and dA policy while wearing the admin hat? (remnant of a paragraph otherwise discarded for being too harsh). Fires off a self-righteous and very indignant reply, still believing herself not to have done anything wrong. I consider the ignorance unacceptable for an administrator (especially ex-CEA), but on a personal level it's entirely forgivable.

I get her second note, experience that familiar WTF moment. Check and recheck my sources to make sure I haven't somehow made a monumental mistake, and then draft a note intended to be as polite as possible while still being absolutely clear. Again, friends proof-reading for me and helping me tone it down considerably before I send it.

She posts a journal entry making some fairly nasty comparisons (not repeated here since people could then identify her), and basically says I was being a big meanie. At no stage has she admitted to breaking any law, as far as I'm aware (obviously I don't know everything that happens behind closed doors).

I post this journal for two main reasons:
1. Because I believe that this story should be available to the community
2. To respond to her journal (her blocking me precludes any other form of contact, as far as I'm aware).

You see this journal in your message centre, figure out who I'm talking about (if you hadn't already heard her side), and post an inexplicable cheap shot. Seriously, I cannot understand how you could have thought such a jab would help matters in the slightest.

I don't really need to give your view of me - you have already done so elsewhere in these comments. Stand by for appropriate replies. Frankly, I think you're in over your head yet again.

OK, that's it for my attempt to understand how you and she view this matter. Stand by for my usual style, in which I dissect your comment and deal appropriately with each point.

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
Reply
$lolly 13 hours 29 minutes ago   Hide
I can hardly wait. :roll: There, I left you with little to dissect to give you more time to get on with your next big earth shattering expose.

--
Richard Hartley
Director of Community Development
lolly@deviantart.com
Reply
!CageyButterfly 11 hours 4 minutes ago   Hide
Yikes.

You appear in light of the response you've chosen ~ to be overwhelmed by the evidence. FYI.:shrug:

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
~surrealist-geek 12 hours 24 minutes ago   Hide
I commend you on your professional demeanor, Mr Hartley. I trust that all others who read this are similarly impressed.

These two comments, I feel, are the extent of what sarcasm can usefully be applied here.

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
Reply
!CageyButterfly 15 hours 10 minutes ago   Hide
Vendetta is a loaded word.

Stop using loaded words to attack your customers.

Every reasonable person knows he raised reasonable, well-thought-out-concerns.

Did the conversation on the sig happen:?

Well, then you are accountable for it as long as the interet exists.:|

FTR: It's this administration that never bends ~ even when presented with *proof* ( which I am sure you realize is greater than mere evidece; as evidence can be looked at from numerous perspectives.)

~

:blahblah: matter was taken care of several days ago anyhow.

Not according to Copyright Laws.:|

~

You're clearly venturing into in scary black & white criminal La-La-Land, Richard.

:llama:

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
$lolly 13 hours 52 minutes ago   Hide
Black and white criminal La La land? As I said the images are gone,when I got word of this journal and the journal in question I immediately contacted $Moonbeam13 and sent emails out to ALL volunteers about use of this sort of thing.
Nut do you guys want to see that? No you just want to scapegoat another admin and add it to your list of supposed fuck ups on behalf of the administration. It grows wearisome and eventually the more weary one gets, the more cranky they get.
But heres another thing since I actually do research this stuff. At the very most we would have gotten an inquiry requesting to remove the images, if they would have even bothered with that at all. ANd

--
Richard Hartley
Director of Community Development
lolly@deviantart.com
Reply
~surrealist-geek 9 hours 26 minutes ago   Hide
Black and white criminal La La land?
Mr Hartley, I remind you that the administrator in question publicly violated US and international law for a significant period of time (and that this use could easily be viewed as commercial use by deviantART). I remind you also that I still have solid proof of this. Frankly, the only reason I have not reported this to UPS is that I prefer not to hurt this administrator any further.

Nut do you guys want to see that?
Did you give us the chance? It is nonsensical to accuse us of dismissing your explanation when you hadn't given it. For the record, that is precisely what I wanted to see.

you just want to scapegoat another admin
Until less than two weeks ago, I liked her quite a lot. I thought she was a geniunely sweet person. She is not the admin I would choose if I were looking for a scapegoat.

At the very most we would have gotten an inquiry requesting to remove the images, if they would have even bothered with that at all
I disagree. You forget that Mr Watterson is an exceptional case.

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
Reply
$lolly 8 hours 34 minutes ago   Hide
You know if you are going to go after people on every little infraction, you should probably target *CageyButterfly next since she has an image in her webcam that is copyrighted and also a photo in her journal of Bob Ross which I am sure she did not take.

--
Richard Hartley
Director of Community Development
lolly@deviantart.com
Reply
!CageyButterfly 4 hours 4 minutes ago   Hide
& btw, Richard ~ this is *HARDLY* any reasonably vaugue semblance of an acceptable response on the part of an an administration ~let alone a paid one with regard to Mr. Heddles clear & well articulated argument .


Here it is again~ ( in case in your fevor to posture defensively & triangulate an attack against me yet again you missed the entire point of this journal & *your* conversation with a customer)


[link]


Thank you for your time & careful consideration.

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
!CageyButterfly 7 hours 4 minutes ago   Hide
You don't make a good Bad Cop, Richard.

Why don't you do your job.:)

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
!CageyButterfly 11 hours 19 minutes ago   Hide
A lack of implicating evidence is not the same as absence of wrongdoing.

This is something you clearly undertand; else you would not have taken the action you did.

I understand that is all the action you *could* take with regard to this particular situation.

What what about a largely juvenile community watching a misinformed staff abuse copyright laws & then by way of silence implying ~ as long as you don't get caught red-handed it's ok."?

...& similarly ~ what about artists who subit works here?...What faith can they have in an administration that doesn't know the first thing about using world famous cartoons in it's CSS?


:no::ohmygod:

So, you see~ your defensive posturing and accusatory finger-pointing will do nothing to remedy this prescedent-setting poo-pooing & outright dismissal of artists copyrights.

It exacerbates it.:|

~

:heart: This isn't personal Richard~ it's actually a *big* deal. I'd actually hate to see you miss the opportunity at hand.

:peace:

:tribute:

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
$lolly 10 hours 9 minutes ago   Hide
*yawn* It's not as big a deal as you guys are attempting to make it and it never was. We deal with cases of this with normal users all the time and we give them some time to fix it. Plain and simple. Anyhow, you two can sit here and pretend to be intellectual and play at your fact distortion games all you want. Enjoy!

--
Richard Hartley
Director of Community Development
lolly@deviantart.com
Reply
~mirrin 9 hours 21 minutes ago   Hide
Had you pointed out that corrective action had been taken and what that action was in your first post here, there would have ceased to have been much of an issue.

That's very different than saying "Thanks for taking pride in him doing the "right thing" regardless of how misinformed he may be! :#1:" in a reply to someone else's comment. Preventing further fuss was well within your power. You chose not to use that power and that's the only reason why we're all still here.

--
Tiger? WHERE!?! WHERE!?! :sprint:
Reply
!CageyButterfly 9 hours 56 minutes ago   Hide
No attempt necessary.

You dug your own graves.

~

We deal with cases of this with normal users all the time and we give them some time to fix it

That's nice. You ~ the administration~ are not "normal users".

How is it you~ not being a total moron~ do not grasp the significance of this?

It's your job to know better.

You failed miserably.

& in so doing your administration violated copyright law ~ while YOU personally cover it up, &! worst of all ~ you let the *entre* community of actual arists ~ whose rights it is in dA's business interest to have a *strong* interest in.

:dollarus:

THAT, Richard~ :above:~ is why you should address reasonable concerns expressed by community members reasonably using actual facts; reasonably & with *facts* of your own rather than triangulated, accusatory, finger-pointing devoid of *any* facts whatsoever.


They couldn't possibly be paying you enough to act like a total corporate schill.

Do I make my self clear now?:)


--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
~rwirtz 16 hours 48 minutes ago   Hide
:bow:
Excellent!
And the whole journal is put together so very well and thought-through!
:clap:
Reply
!CageyButterfly 1 day 2 hours ago   Hide
Oh?



Kindly provide evidence to the contrary then, Richard...Rather than implying ~surrealist-geek is a liar in some sideways manner.:roll:


Otherwise~ rationally~ you must realize ~ it's just your word against his...& we know nobody's paying him for his.

:shrug:


--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
=kamiawolf 12 hours 23 minutes ago   Hide
"misinformed" is not the same as "liar"

--
Comment on unknown artists:
Digital / Photos / Traditional
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!CageyButterfly 11 hours 34 minutes ago   Hide
What part of "sideways implication(sic)" do you not understand.

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
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*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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=kamiawolf 11 hours 24 minutes ago   Hide
:shrug: what part of blah blah blah oh nevermind

--
Comment on unknown artists:
Digital / Photos / Traditional
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!CageyButterfly 6 hours 51 minutes ago   Hide
:) OK:hug:

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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!CageyButterfly 16 hours 58 minutes ago   Hide
:) I repay loyalty-for-loyalty. & I defend character where it deserves to be.:smooch:


No worries:heart:

:salute:

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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=ladytwiglet 20 hours 57 minutes ago   Hide
fucking MEGA high-five on that one :highfive:

--
ACCIDENTRETARD ACCIDENTRETARD ACCIDENTRETARD!

yay community! :no:
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!CageyButterfly 16 hours 57 minutes ago   Hide
:lol: Mega High-fives are *awesome*:aww:

:highfive:


--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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!CageyButterfly 1 day 11 hours ago   Hide
Always...:flirty:

Yup~ on yahoo currently~ you:?

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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!CageyButterfly 1 day 10 hours ago   Hide
NOW I AM!:D

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SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
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!CageyButterfly 1 day 9 hours ago   Hide
Sorry ~ got m00fed off...I'll see ya on yahoo.:cake:


:strip::w00t!:

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
!CageyButterfly 1 day 14 hours ago   Hide
I'm saddened that I'm not surprised at the sense of entitlment & lengthy bullshit justifications displayed by the administrator in question.


:( *sigh*



:hug:


--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
~surrealist-geek 1 day 13 hours ago   Hide
I think you will still be surprised by the identity of the administrator in question. This flatly contradicts who and what I thought she was.

:hug:

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
Reply
!CageyButterfly 1 day 7 hours ago   Hide
Well~ doesn't contradict what I thought....:D

*foppish*...Yesterday, today~ & tomorrow:hmm:

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
!CageyButterfly 1 day 5 hours ago   Hide
True~ but in this case ~ really, I'm a chick & less likely to fall for that fakey-fakey nurturing crap women are *more* ( not exclusively) likely to use than men.


men use other crap;P

--
SAVE THE ALIEN!:heart:[link]
:jarkinajar::nod::heart:


*CageyButterfly absolutely adores self-congratulatory people.
They're so easy to please...

[link]
Reply
~mirrin 1 day 17 hours ago   Hide
I wonder what Mr. Watterson will say when some conscientious and law abiding soul finally figures out how to contact him... I'm sure "deviantArt receives take-down order after a site admin caught ripping art" will be a big hit on digg. :paranoid:

--
Tiger? WHERE!?! WHERE!?! :sprint:
Reply
~surrealist-geek 1 day 13 hours ago   Hide
Nah, Mr Watterson's email address is not publicly known. As I understand it, the proper entity to contact is UPS (his syndicate). They don't own the copyright, but they administer such rights as he has allowed them to use.

That, by the way, was two steps further than what I got to (though I was marginally too nice to threaten it outright). She forestalled that (and the intermediate step of reporting here on dA) by removing the images, all without ever admitting she'd done anything wrong.

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
Reply
~mirrin 1 day 12 hours ago   Hide
You are far more polite than I in such situations. I prefer the "toast-first, talk later" technique when dealing with such hypocrites. If that were you or I, it would have earned an instant ban, so I see no reason why such a person shouldn't have to face the same sort of public humiliation (or even greater) for doing what that person did.

Getting in touch with an artist, or at least their agent, is a fairly easy thing, even for a retired artist.

--
Tiger? WHERE!?! WHERE!?! :sprint:
Reply
~surrealist-geek 1 day 11 hours ago   Hide
To be fair, this didn't ever get reported to CEA - they haven't given her preferential treatment. She just took the images down in a hurry when I looked like causing trouble over it.

I could easily get in touch with UPS, but I don't see any particular need to now. A take-down order would be somewhat redundant at this point, and that would have been their first response.

--
$lolly defends $spyed's breaking of the rules, and then refuses to discuss it.

"leading and confrontational and has an agenda"
Reply
~mirrin 1 day 9 hours ago   Hide
I know... things went too fast to have it made an example of. Next time... :plotting:

--
Tiger? WHERE!?! WHERE!?! :sprint:
Reply
~mirrin 1 day 8 hours ago   Hide
Indeed. :nod:

--
Tiger? WHERE!?! WHERE!?! :sprint:
Reply
~XxMaLicE07xX 1 day 22 hours ago   Hide
:no: shame shame

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